Pueblo leaders debate potential negative impacts of wine to be sold in grocery stores

PUEBLO, Colo. (KRDO) -- An hour-long and occasionally heated presentation during a City Council work session Monday night highlighted concerns regarding the upcoming sale of wine in grocery stores, and questions about how to address them.

That sale is mandated by the November passage of Proposition 125 by statewide voters, despite critics saying that the change, starting in March, will hurt sales at liquor stores.

Those very fears were explained by Brian Lucas and Jackie Seybold, owners of two local Big Bear Wine & Liquor stores, who made the presentation.

"Pueblo has around 30 liquor stores and we're probably going to lose two-thirds of them," Lucas said. "That means lost jobs, lost small businesses that are part of the community -- and for the city, less sales tax, payroll tax, property tax and utility revenue."

Lucas and Seybold said that the two biggest problems created by the law will be an increase in shoplifting of wine, and a rise in drunk driving crashes involving juveniles who steal wine and get behind the wheel of an auto.

"I'm worried about kids," Lucas said. "I'm worried about minors. The 12- and 15-year-old kids -- and it's that young now."

Approximately 20% of wine thefts across the country, he said, happen at self-checkout registers that may have only one store worker overseeing multiple registers.

"People will steal wine like they steal beer at grocery stores now," Lucas said. They'll get a can of beer that looks like a can of energy drink. Then, they'll scan the energy drink twice and sneak the beer into their bag. No one stops it because they don't see it or notice it."

Lucas and Seybold want the Council to pass an ordinance that does what California did in 2012 and Massachusetts is currently considering: ban all sales of alcohol at self-checkout stations and require sales to be transacted in person to a cashier.

"It's too risky right now for these kids to have this kind of accessibility," she said.

However, City Attorney Dan Kogovsek said that alcohol sales are a matter of state law and can't be superseded by local ordinances.

"I can tell you it's illegal and we'll get sued," he said. "That's no problem, but we can't tell (stores) how to sell alcohol. We'll just have to prosecute and hold stores accountable if they continue to violate state law by allowing alcohol to fall into the hands of minors."

After some discussion with the Council, a new strategy emerged -- limiting alcohol sales to a single self-checkout station constantly monitored by a cashier who can check ID, watch the entire transaction and enter a code approving the sale.

But Lucas is skeptical that strategy will work.

"If there are ten self-checkout stations and the only person monitoring them is overseeing alcohol transactions, there's no one to watch the other stations."

So far, only King Soopers and Family Dollar have applied for licenses to dell wine, Kogovsek said.

Councilor Larry Atencio supports eliminating self-checkout stations at grocery stores.

"I think they're ridiculous," he said. "All they're doing is taking employment opportunities away from people."

The Council finally decided to have Kogovsek research the matter further, to determine what the city legally can and can't do; no deadline was given for the research to be presented.

The city attorney responded to criticism from Councilor Heather Graham, that he wasn't knowledgeable enough about the legalities.

"You said (that) I should be fired," he said.

"I'm starting to think that again," she responded.

At the height of the debate, Chairwoman Sarah Martinez called for order.

"This has gotten way out of hand and I'm getting frustrated, honestly, because we're not listening to each other," she declared.

Then looking at samples of alcohol brought in as props by the liquor store owners, she added: "I need a drink now. I'm glad you guys brought alcohol because I need a drink."

"Have your ID ready," Seybold replied jokingly.

Because of perceived inconsistencies in the application of Proposition 125, Gov. Jared Polis has formed an advisory panel of 41 liquor store owners that could eventually lead to amending the law.

"But that'll take at least a year," Seybold said. "We have the ability to do something now, without hurting the monetary impact for anyone."

The Colorado Department of Revenue later clarified Seybold's comments by saying: "The Liquor Advisory Group was created to modernize, clarify and align the liquor code to enhance statutory clarity, marketplace and consumer protections, and public safety initiatives. It is wholly separate from this ballot initiative."

Other specifics provided by the DOR are:

• Self-checkout claims are inaccurate. Grocery store self-check-out does have a clerk available, and sales will go through once age verification is performed. We agree with the City Attorney there are penalties in law and rule to hold licensees and their employees accountable. 
• Retail Liquor Stores' numbers have remained the same since grocery stores entered the liquor marketplace. 
• Existing FMB-Off retailers will convert automatically to FMB and Wine Retailers without any additional application process on the state or local level. There are 1877 of FMB-OFF within our state currently to date.