Syrian rebel leader says goal is to ‘overthrow’ Assad regime

By Jomana Karadsheh, Gul Tuysuz, Brice Laine, Lauren Kent and Eyad Kourdi, CNN

Syria (CNN) — The goal of Syria’s rebel coalition, as it wrests another major city from government control this week, is ultimately to overthrow authoritarian President Bashar al-Assad, according to Abu Mohammad al-Jolani, the militant leader of the main group driving the country’s armed opposition.

In an exclusive interview with CNN, Jolani left no doubt that the ambitions of Hayat Tahrir Al-Sham (HTS) – a group that was formed out of a former al Qaeda affiliate – are nothing less than bringing an end to the Assad regime. In his first sit-down media interview in years, at an undisclosed location in Syria, he spoke about plans to create a government based on institutions and a “council chosen by the people.”

“When we talk about objectives, the goal of the revolution remains the overthrow of this regime. It is our right to use all available means to achieve that goal,” said Jolani.

“The seeds of the regime’s defeat have always been within it… the Iranians attempted to revive the regime, buying it time, and later the Russians also tried to prop it up. But the truth remains: this regime is dead.”

Since bursting out of their pocket of territory in the northwest of the country more than a week ago, the rebels’ progress has been stunningly swift, taking control of the country’s second-largest city Aleppo before capturing the strategic city of Hama. The shock offensive delivered a huge blow to Assad and his backers in Iran and Russia, while reigniting a civil war that had been largely dormant for years.

Syria’s opposition forces are decentralized and made up of different ideologies, albeit united by a common goal of upending the Assad regime. But HTS and Jolani’s roots in extremist Islamist movements cast a shadow over his ambitions.

Despite Jolani’s effort to distance his new group from al Qaeda, the United States designated HTS a Foreign Terrorist Organization in 2018 and placed a $10 million bounty on him.

Emerging from the shadows

For someone who once operated in the shadows, Jolani exuded confidence and tried to project modernity in his meeting with CNN, which took place in broad daylight and with little security. As CNN sat down to interview Jolani, news broke that forces under his command had captured the city of Hama.

Inside rebel-controlled territory in Syria, it’s clear he operates less like a wanted man and more like a politician. After forces loyal to him took control of Aleppo, he made a public appearance in the city’s historic citadel.

Jolani says he has gone through episodes of transformation through the years. “A person in their twenties will have a different personality than someone in their thirties or forties, and certainly someone in their fifties. This is human nature.”

Jolani cut his teeth as a young fighter for al Qaeda against the US in Iraq. Returning to his homeland during the Syrian civil war, he led the terror group’s affiliate in Syria when it was under the name Jabhat Al Nusra. He would go on to break ties with al Qaeda and his organization evolved into Hayat Tahrir Al-Sham, also known as the Organization for the Liberation of the Levant, in early 2017.

The US, Turkey, the United Nations and several other Western nations continue to designate HTS as a Foreign Terrorist Organization, despite the group’s attempts to distance itself from its roots.

Jolani’s interview with CNN on Thursday was an about-face from the hardline rhetoric that he used during his first-ever televised interview in 2013, when he was interviewed by Al Jazeera with his face in shadow. At the time, his remarks were focused on furthering al Qaeda’s branch in Syria.

On Thursday, Jolani projected a different vision for the war-torn country. In a sign of his attempted rebranding, he also publicly used his real name for the first time – Ahmed al-Sharaa – instead of the nom de guerre by which he is widely known.

As the rebel coalition’s military advances expand the territory and population under their control, Jolani insisted that civilians had little to fear in the management of rebel-held areas of Syria. “People who fear Islamic governance either have seen incorrect implementations of it or do not understand it properly,” he claimed.

If opposition forces succeed in toppling Assad’s regime, it will transition into “a state of governance, institutions and so on,” he envisioned.

The group said it is working to reassure civilians and groups that suffered persecution at the hands of extremist and jihadist groups in Syria’s decade-long civil war. It also said it has gone out of its way to publicly tell Christians and other religious and ethnic minorities that they will live safely under its rule.

“There were some violations against them [minorities] by certain individuals during periods of chaos, but we addressed these issues,” Jolani said when asked about concerns for their safety.

“No one has the right to erase another group. These sects have coexisted in this region for hundreds of years, and no one has the right to eliminate them,” he said.

Human rights groups and local monitors have nevertheless raised alarm about HTS’ more recent treatment of political dissidents in Idlib, alleging that the group conducted harsh crackdowns on protests and tortured and abused dissidents. Jolani told CNN that incidents of abuse in prisons “were not done under our orders or directions” and HTS had already held those involved accountable.

Jolani also pushed back against the enduring terror designation of HTS, calling the label “primarily political and, at the same time, inaccurate,” arguing that some extreme Islamist practices had “created a divide” between HTS and jihadist groups. He claimed that he was opposed to some of the more brutal tactics used by other jihadi groups which led to his severing ties with them. He also claimed that he was never personally involved in attacks on civilians.

When CNN visited Aleppo earlier in the day, the team found a city that appeared calm despite the sudden takeover by opposition forces just last week. Markets were open, people were walking the streets and life was carrying on, even after bombings by pro-Assad Russian warplanes that have killed scores of people in rebel-held areas.

Assad’s chokehold on the country has been reinforced by his allies. As anti-government forces grew in the aftermath of the 2011 Arab Spring, Iran’s Revolutionary Guard as well as its Lebanese proxy Hezbollah helped fight the armed rebel groups on the ground. In the skies, the Syrian Air Force was bolstered by Russian warplanes.

Jolani expressed a desire to see foreign forces leave Syria. There are currently forces from the US, Turkey, Russia and Iran as well as Iranian proxies in the country. “I think that once this regime falls, the issue will be resolved, and there will no longer be a need for any foreign forces to remain in Syria.”

“Syria deserves a governing system that is institutional, not one where a single ruler makes arbitrary decisions,” he added. The Assad dynasty has been in power for 53 years, since 1971. To maintain its decades-long rule, the regime has killed hundreds of thousands of people, jailed dissidents and brutally displaced millions internally and abroad.

“We are talking about a larger project – we are talking about building Syria,” Jolani continued. “Hayat Tahrir al-Sham is merely one part of this dialogue, and it may dissolve at any time. It is not an end in itself but a means to perform a task: confronting this regime.”

CNN’s Mostafa Salem and Isil Sariyuce contributed to this report.

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